--- title: "Exclusive Interview with John Barnes" canonical: "https://readliverpoolfc.com/articles/exclusive-interview-john-barnes/" type: "post" language: "en-GB" author: "Sam Brown" section: "Articles" published: "2016-06-12T11:11:02Z" modified: "2016-06-12T11:11:02Z" --- # Exclusive Interview with John Barnes I was lucky enough to travel to London to talk to John Barnes, [Titanbet.co.uk](https://titanbet.co.uk/) brand ambassador, about all things Liverpool and England. * * * **SB: I’d like to start John by asking you about your time at Watford. Do you think that joining a team in what was then the old Second Division (and later the first division) and playing regular football helped your development as a footballer?** **JB:** It helped the development in the sense that when the opportunity came to go to a big institution like Liverpool, I’d had six years at a very well run club who were challenging at the highest level and also been playing for England for four years helped me understand how the hype can be exaggerated. You’re not as good as people think you are but you’re not as bad as people think you are. Now, if you have six good months at a club then you find yourself at Man United, Man City, having really done nothing. All this praise gets heaped on these players and if they don’t get results straight away, how do they handle that? So it’s like growing up, going through the ups and the downs of being a young footballer. Being judged at a club like Watford is fine, but if you’re judged at a big club where you’re in the spotlight, that can damage you as a player. When it came to move to the big stage like Liverpool, I was ready. ![Clive Brunskill/Getty Images Sport](https://cdn.readeverything.co/readliverpoolfc/2016/06/1220763.jpg)**SB: Do you feel like young players coming through in the academies at clubs like Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal, who aren’t getting regular first team minutes are having their development as footballers hindered?** **JB:** It can and what should happen is they don’t stay there. Every player feels as though they’re good enough to play for Man United, Man City, Arsenal, and then people who know better advise them to leave, where they can then develop. If this means then coming back at a later stage like Jamie Vardy at age 29 great, but if not then that means that you’ve found your level in the Championship, League One, or elsewhere. You have these young English players staying at big clubs until they’re 21, 22, but in all reality, they’re never going to play for Liverpool or whoever they’re attached to. They are attracted to the celebrity lifestyle of being at a big club. They don’t look at their careers and think “It would be better for me to be somewhere else”. Playing for Liverpool reserves and earning 20 grand a week is appealing to footballers of that age. **SB: Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton, Aldridge, Rush. Where does that front-line stack up in the all-time great groupings we’ve seen in world football? Maybe in comparison to the Barcelona forwards at this moment in time?** **JB:** The difference between modern football and the players you mention back then is that those players 30, 35 years ago were part of a team. Regardless of whether the fans saw us as more important than our teammates, we never saw ourselves as more important than our teammates. Therefore, you can’t talk about Barnes, Beardsley and Rush without talking about Nicol, McMahon and Whelan. Regardless of whether or not the fans would say “Barnsey’s better than Nicol”, I saw myself as exactly the same. Whereas now, we completely separate out the team. Messi, Neymar and Suarez is what Barcelona is. Ronaldo is what Real Madrid is. Harry Kane is what Spurs are. Steven Gerrard and Suarez is what Liverpool was and maybe they believe that themselves because that’s the way they’re treated. But back then, that wasn’t what Liverpool was, and we couldn’t afford to think that way. If you separate out the team like now, then your superstar players aren’t responsible for when you lose. When you lose, fans say to the superstar players “Oh, it’s not your fault, it’s the rest of the team’s fault”. If they believe that, then it’s a recipe for disaster. Back then if Rushie scored a hat-trick then we’d say “Oh Rushie, you won the game for us”. But if we lost then we’d also say “Rushie, you were the reason that we lost”. The most important thing is the responsibility when you lose, and not the responsibility when you win. ![Clive Brunskill/Getty Images Sport](https://cdn.readeverything.co/readliverpoolfc/2016/06/1220760.jpg) **SB: When you were coming towards the end of your time at Liverpool, Jamie Carragher was starting to break into the team. Was there something about Jamie that struck you as “Liverpool Legend”?** **JB:** Not really. Jamie wasn’t a regular in the team when I was there, and he only really started to gain a role due to the nature of Liverpool’s “demise”, if you like. Steven Gerrard was this wonder kid you knew was going to be a Liverpool legend. But with Jamie, Jamie himself would tell you now that a 17-year-old Jamie Carragher wouldn’t make it at Liverpool today. He wasn’t a superstar player but Liverpool stuck with him, gave him time, allowed him to develop, whereas now we get the best 16 and 17-year-olds from around the world to fill that role; there’s no room for a Jamie Carragher. The feeling around Gerrard and Owen was always that they would be Liverpool legends if they stay at the club, whereas Jamie was a good, honest, hard-working player who maximised his potential to do what he did. Playing around in midfield and at full-back also gave Jamie the opportunity to gain experience, and the opportunity came for him to become a stalwart at centre back, he was able to make the position his own. **SB: When you look at the current Liverpool squad, do any of the players there jump out as future “Liverpool Legends” to you?** **JB:** It’s nothing to do with Liverpool, but a feature of modern British football. You become a legend because you stay at a club for a long period of time. Yes, you have to play well, but mainly you need to be at that club for a long period of time. But that’s not going to happen anywhere. Rooney’s the last one at Man United, but is Martial going to stay 15 years? Or after three years will he move on? Will Coutinho move on? Luis Suarez could have stayed 10 years, but left after about two. In 20 years, people won’t think about Suarez as a Liverpool player and that’s how you become a legend, through the association of being at that particular club. It’s not wrong, it’s not right, but it’s the way it is. Those days have gone from a managerial perspective, as we see Mourinho move on from Chelsea, although he probably will remain a legend there for winning them the league. But from a playing perspective, players are going to be there for three, four, five years at the most, and move on. For me now, the most important thing is to put the power back into the hands of the clubs. Support the club, not the players, because they’ll move on. If you put these players above the other players and the club itself, you undermine everything. It’s about changing the mentality of these superstar players from “oh I don’t want to be in this team because they keep losing”, to “I’m a part of this team that keeps losing, I have to help them”. ![Ben Radford/Getty Images Sport](https://cdn.readeverything.co/readliverpoolfc/2016/06/1255576.jpg)**SB: When you look at Liverpool under Jurgen Klopp, do you think that is a team that can win trophies?** **JB:** Anyone can win cups, but what you have to do is improve in the league. I would rather finish second or third in the league than finish tenth and win the FA Cup. Your performance in the league shows you the team that you actually are. Wigan have won the FA Cup, look where they are now. Winning trophies is nice, and it can actually keep a manager at a club. As soon as the Arsenal fans are saying “Let’s get rid of Wenger he hasn’t won us any trophies”, they go and win the FA Cup twice. But, they’re still wanting rid of Wenger. So, what will keep them happy? Winning the league. **SB: Turning our attention to England finally, I don’t want to talk about the Euros but the 1990 World Cup. As a younger England fan, I’ve always associated that Italia 90 England team with success. Am I right in thinking that team had more talent than other England teams? Or have the big personalities and enduring moments immortalised them in English footballing folklore?** **JB:** We weren’t better than other England teams. Look at the team in 1998 or when they had Gerrard, I don’t think there’s much to choose between any of the England teams. But that team in 1990 had a lot of spirit and a lot of togetherness, and a lot of experience. Peter Shilton in goal, Bryan Robson, Gary Lineker. I was 28, had 50 or so England caps, so that was a team that matured at the particular point in time. If you look at the team we have now with not whole lot of experience, it’s difficult to judge them. But when you talk about pure talent I don’t think that team was more talented than any other, but it was a team that played with a lot of heart, a lot of spirit, a lot of determination, a lot of humility. When I talk about a team winning and losing together, with England now we tend to admonish the back four whenever we lose. But back then, the harmony within the squad was really good. Experience counts for a lot when it comes to tournaments. When you compare the current squad to 2006, we had Champions League winners at their prime. Gerrard in his prime, Lampard in his prime, Rooney in his prime, Ferdinand in his prime, Ashley Cole in his prime, and we couldn’t win, why are we going to win now? We’ve got Dele Alli and Eric Dier with one year of regular club football. Experience counts for a lot, harmony counts for a lot, responsibility and togetherness counts for a lot, and unfortunately I don’t think this team has that. ![David Cannon/Getty Images Sport](https://cdn.readeverything.co/readliverpoolfc/2016/06/1220843.jpg) * * * *John Barnes is a Brand Ambassador for [Titanbet.co.uk](https://titanbet.co.uk/) and was talking at a Titan Bet EURO 2016 preview. New customer sign up here (embedded link [http://bit.ly/1MRbC1i](https://bit.ly/1MRbC1i)) and Get £20 free bet when you deposit and bet £10. 18+, terms apply.* *[Gambleaware.co.uk](https://gambleaware.co.uk/)*